Talk:Kamijou Touma/Abilities and Powers/@comment-173.87.221.2-20150408002555/@comment-5230978-20150408192323

@ Deagle275

IB transfering into another host is put down in black and white in NT 9:"Before long, Imagine Breaker’s power would transfer into something else. It could be a person or an object. If she removed all matter from the world, that power might pour into Othinus herself. It was no different from playing old maid against an opponent who only had one card. Even if you knew that card was the joker, you had to take it." Also, in NT 4 Fiamma talks about the current generation Imagine Breaker meaning there were other bearers before Touma. And it wasn't IB that regenerated Touma's arm but the third power after it devoured IT. IB was still inside the dismembered Touma's right hand absorbed by the Holy Right. Then IB transferred to Touma's new right hand.

Look, Touma clearly doesn't even have the calculation ability of a Level 3, which are considered as part of the elite (look at Tokiwadai's tudents being better than him and those of his school), let alon that of a Level 5. He is not hopeless when it comes to physics as he showed in vol 20, but there is a huge difference between that and the calculation ability of a Level 5 and the power the anon talked about would be much stronger than that of a Level 5.

Before that an esper powera bout order doesn't really sound like something related to science like all the powers of AC's espers, but more to magic. But again it's just a power the anon made up to support their idea.

IT could be weaker because of the third power or as said above it simply wasn't at its actual fullest that time because only the hand was removed. But anyway IT clearly isn't static and evolves. There are twom amin logical hypothesis about IT and the dragons: the first is that they are the same things, the second and more complete is that they are two different things and the dragons are the third power. In both cases a clear evolution is showed throughout the series. In the first case we have the IT appearing as a Dragon that terrifies Aureolus in vol 2 though not how it terrifies Fiamma (perceiving that it is way stronger than him) but due to primal fear and it only make him lose his memory whe it attacks him. Then in Daihasei Railgun we have eight dragons that can devour the dark sphere and destroy Mikoto's transformation. Now, there is a chance that the other seven heads merely did not appeared in vol 2, so it's vague but it could actually be an evolution too. However a clear evolution is showed in vol 22 where the the power doesn't appear as one or more dragons but as an invisible power of strenght way superior than before. In the second case we have only the dragons to appear as active power (I mean that they actually do something) during the the first two times IB is removed, but in vol 2 the dragon is transparent and in Daihasei Railgun the bases of their necks are transparent too so within a small range around the wound of Touma's arm there is soething making the dragons' body appear transparent. That thing must be the IT which is a weak and probably inactive form. Then, in vol 22 IT is active and powerful and manifests before the third power/dragons which is later used by Touma to stop it. In both cases there is a clear change in the behaviour/appearance of IT but more importantly of its strenght. Othinus' statement was just a hint.

@ Inovanth

First of all, IT evolving is not an opinion of mine but something a lot of people noticed in these years even before than me. Secondly, it's you that are not putting enough thought in understanding that line. Kamachi always, again, always gives hints, fragmented information, and sometimes even forshadowings when talking about great the mysteries of the series like IB, IT, Awakening, Aleister's plan, etc. (look at vol 2 with Touma thinking for a moment that the dragon wasn't Aureolus' doing but real, or at vol 3 when the awakening is indireclty forshadowed when talking about the Three of the Sephirot and SYSTEM) and in that very volume (Nt 4) others are given. Also, you aren't correctly reading that line as from that way it is structured the decent result is only referenced to the part before the comma (WW3) and the disappointment is about the actual situation (Nt 4). If it was just decent for her standard the she was already disappointed about the results during WW3 as she knew about it, but she was surprised about what she found in NT 4 so it's not the case and if she was disappointed about WW3's results, she wouldn't have used the word "decent". And when she talked about results she wasn't even referring to Touma defeating Fiamma and putting an end to the war, because it as nothing to do with the IT as it only stopped an attack of Fiamma and was then crashed. Touma won only thanks to his skills and combined effort of allies and enemy of Fiamma around the world. Not to mention that when Othinus said that line Touma was unconsious so she wasn't even talking to him but to the IT, which is demonstrated ot have a will. Obviously the results of IT aren't attributable to Touma as he doesn't have control over it and it is not even his own power like IB as only the third power was referred in vol 22 as Touma's power. Now, the results Othinus was talking about aren't related to the end of WW3 so they are just about what IT did, but the only thing it did was appear and cut an attack of Fiamma LPSaD. So what was worth of that "praisement"? The only answers are fact that IT was able to do that and/or the power it reached. Think about the use of words as they are never casual in these series. "Produce a result" means that a result that wasn't achieved before is reached. If IT was static and the power IT had in vol 22 was the same it always had, then that expression wouldn't have been used. Also, Othinus wouldn't have used the word "decent" if the result was the most IT could do, but would have said something like "very good" or even "great", highlighting even more that IT can't do more than that and that it was a disappointment for her. Moreover, as said before Othinus was clearly surprised that the IT in NT 4 wasn't strong as in vol 22 so she didn't know that it got weaker, if it is the case, or that IT appears weaker only when only the right hand is removed. They both makes sense: 1) as she wasn't on the Star of Bethlehem and didn't show ability that allow her to see what happens in another place so she must hvae just sensed the power of IT, which should be easy since it is stronger than LPSaD; 2) even if she knows a lot about IB and IT she doesn't seem to know everything.

What you call reading way too much is just carefully reading the text and analyzing the meaning of words used, events occurred, and the reasons behind them. Only because you didn't see this doesn't mean others can't. Oh, and as I showed to Deagle275, Othinus' statement was just the leading line as clear hints of IT evolving are showed in the series.