Talk:Kakine Teitoku/@comment-95.90.229.144-20140311145310/@comment-95.90.229.144-20140314105409

Did you really read the novels?

i have, what you wrote makes more sense than the explanation in this wiki, maybe someone should update it, i always thought that if she uses her powers she will win through gaining what she wants or do something completly unrelated to her desired wish, like creating a apple: 50% success: apple appears, 50% failure: a banana appears, or the earth turns into ice cream, somethnig which is a complete failure...

but why should they say: she has a equal chance on defeating every army on this planet and loosing to a child in rock-scissor-paper?? wouldnt this always be a draw ? either victory with 50% success or (in the worst case) draw through 50% failure..

if your explanation is true ,which makes more sense, than it should be added into the wiki, it is really confusing if they simply stop the explanation with 50/50 success/failure :(

''Already explained you in the previous post why Ars Magna can defeat Dark Matter. And don't forget that even if Dark Matter produce matter that doesn't exist in this world, it does't mean that what exists in this world can't defeat it: e.g. Ars magna could even create thousands of nuke explosions letting the user unscathed with the right uses, ''

now i can agree, i was sure Dark Matter would win since Ars Magna wouldnt affect it directly but the argument with the nukes cleared me up XD

You acknowledged that LPSaD is stronger than DM, and IT is stronger that LPSaD (it's clearly stated and shown in vol 22), ergo IT is stronger than DM. 

?? i dont want to be annoying but didnt this thing showed up, (maybe it was the reason why IB and toumas right arm returned) and was stopped by touma himself?? why should it be stronger?? yeah Fiamma was scared but i dont think this is a valid reason to think that IT is stronger than Lsdap...

''There were light beams in the Bible? No. Yet he produces them. The Holy Right can reproduce miracles related to the right hand, but it can defeat every enemies using the exactly amount of power needed to do it. Now, was this ability mentioned exactly like this in the Bible? No, it's only Fiamma version of Michael's righ hand. ''


 * ( agree, this story seems to be a bit inconsistent with the powers and the explanations why they occur :D

''There is no proof he can reproduce complex abilities like that of Accel. More importantly, we are talking about what abilities shown this far can defeat the actual Dark Matter, so don't change the topic at you convenience. Futhermore, if you want to talk about potential there are even other abilities that could defeat Dark Matter. ''

i wrote Fanwanking didnt i ?? i know that it was never proofed that he can...

Kakine cannot istantly cover the world with Dark Matter, it would require time, and meantime Fiamma or/and Ollerus would take action, so Kakine would be defeated before covering the world with DM.

agree...

And you assume Kakine can cover the world only because he covered Sargasso, which is ridiculous, not to mention that the giant wings where most likely produced by an Awakening.

im sure he can, was it ever mentioned that his wings started to glow or something like in Vol. 15 ?? i readed that part and their is nothing mentioned about his wings turning into this version again....

And the point of not killing the other Gremlin's members is weak, because they were only small fries, so killing them wouldn't have killed Othinus, and the infiltration plan wouldn't have worked.

it would destroy the whole plan of Othinus, without Bersi she cant do a sh*t with science, without Mijölnir she cant accomplish the needed energy and without Marian she cant create Gungnir in the first place, so why shouldnt they kill them and stop Othinus???

if they wanted to kill Othinus which they knew it is not possible (ollerus stated it in NT4) than why should they seek her, they only need to prevend her from creating gungnir, which they accomplish would the kill everyone in gremlin...

''Because he wanted to be with her, or at least he didn't want to erease all the happiness he shared with her in the past. Without her perfect memory Index would have never meet him. If he only wanted her to be happy, he wouldn't have tried to kill Touma because he was able to free Index from the annual memory loss and to give her happpiness. ''

a undertandable reason, than why didnt he do it for the roman knights?? of course he thought about them as small fries but it would be more convenient if they would never being born..... the problem is: he cant simply say 'Be never Born', he needs to imagine that this person was never born and without any information about this certain being before him, do you think he could do that??

''Proving without a doubt that Kakine has organs. Vento stomps. ''

now i agree XD, i always thought that Kakine would be like a Golem, completly created out of clay (dark matter), without any form of organs inside of him, only looking like a human, seems like i was wrong :p

''Kamina forgot to mention that Fiamma doesn't even need to be aware of an attack to be defended against, as shown by how HR backhanded a laser. Even if he were tired, Kakine wouldn't be able to attack him, HR will defend him regardless he is conscious or not. ''

ah, true, i didnt thought about that part :/ it would be similar with accels reflection (pre-vol.3)

''Doesn't matter. Aureolus is simply imposing the concept of death on Kakine, he is not saying 'destroy his body', he is simply saying 'die'. He does not need to specify how, the method able to kill Kakine will simply manifest itself, pure and simple. ''

i agreed that Ars Magna would win but i doubt that it could affect him directly, it would be like Kamina said: using nukes or other stuff....

So in Short:

- Since Kakine seems to have organs, lungs, he will be affected by Divine Punishment

- Fiamma and Ollerus would win which depends on the situation (does Kakine aleady expand himself over the whole world or not)

- Ars Magna User would win with enough 'nukes' or something like that

- Othinus

and than we have powerful but limited Magic: Soul-Severing-Spell and Erasing-Of-Existence-Spell are there a few more??

- and Gabriel

=> so only top-tier monsters can kill him, 99,9% of the magicians are screwed....